Curse

romeo_longsword · Mar 22, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

When I play the game, I often find problem in finding a good caller, or be a good caller myself.

Espically in PvP, I have no idea which is the best target to attack.

I find that players who automatically attacking the monk before they even have their formation lay out rather robotic and not often effective.

I wonder if any experienced player who feel they call their target well for their party, and I would like to ask what factors make you deceid: 1) What target to call first, 2) What make you switch target.

From my personal experience so far, my targeting method is based on formation, meaning that, I would look at their foarmation lay out in relation to ours, I would very rarely hit the monk, Memser at the back of the warrior right away, but I feel that there are much for me to develop.

Sekkira · Mar 22, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

You'd probably get a better, more informed reply about this in the PvP forum.

Yichi · Mar 22, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

call any target first to spike thats shutting down your monks. and make sure its a real close to right on spike, otherwise a good infuser > u

Dion Star · Mar 22, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

A good target caller is also a good team leader. He knows every map and how to play the map to best exploit any advantage. He will move and motivate his team and keep them from getting flustered and confused in the middle of the battle.

The Target you would call depends on the build you face. Always remember your monks/Heal team give you the win. With them you can make mistakes and come back without them you will lose. A good offense is nice an AWESOME heal team is better. That said If the enemy team is Mesmer heavy you will want to focus on taking out Mesmer's first. Before I go on I must add that the build you are running also plays a big factor in how you call targets. If say you have a spike build then your free to take out the enemy monks first, unless they are to deep. If so then pick of a caster, necro, ele, Mesmer. Spike them and move on.

Each kill you get really takes out at minimum 2 people from the other team for at least 3 seconds. You will see some teams all try to rez. if that is the case you have Blacked Out 7 people for a good 4 to 5 seconds. It takes time to rez and transition back to the game. With spike you capitalize on this by taking out targets faster then the enemy team can keep up with rezing.

The build is only 20% of the win, playing the map and having great communication is 50% and players with the ability to play each slot at its full potential and capitalize on game objectives is the reaming 30%

This reply is already too long :P If you're truly interested in takeing your game play to the next level head over to our guild website. Or give me a PM and I can give you our guilds contact info. Your welcome to get on our TS server and I would be more then happy to discuss with you game strat.

DionStar
The Second Foundation

Metanoia · Mar 22, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Well, it really all comes down to "How much damage do they cause/prevent in proportion to the effort required to neutralize them?".

The most important thing to remember, IMO, is that when trying to kill a Monk, unless it's a spike it's a battle of attrition. If they cast Guardian on themselves, switch targets to another softie. Any damage you do to anyone on their team is damage to the Monk when you think of yourself as attacking their Monk's energy rather than its hit points. You'll find they run out of energy a lot faster if you don't let them make use of their efficient dynamic healing/damage mitigation skills.

Dion Star · Mar 22, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

Well, it really all comes down to "How much damage do they cause/prevent in proportion to the effort required to neutralize them?".

The most important thing to remember, IMO, is that when trying to kill a Monk, unless it's a spike it's a battle of attrition. If they cast Guardian on themselves, switch targets to another softie. Any damage you do to anyone on their team is damage to the Monk when you think of yourself as attacking their Monk's energy rather than its hit points. You'll find they run out of energy a lot faster if you don't let them make use of their efficient dynamic healing/damage mitigation skills.

Good point and something I think allot of people forget when they are creating builds. The current generic setup for GVG is 3 primary heal/prot monks with an additional 2-3 /Mo with some form of support. Compared to the past where most teams ran 2 booners and some form of the E/mo N/mo HP spammer this allows for a team to have a higher level of survivability.

In the past degen/constant damage would inturn drain the monks of energy because it forced them to heal. The 2 boon monk heal team is very inefficient when it comes to energy use BUT you get fast heals. What we are seeing now is a much more balanced heal team. 1 Boon 1 Active prot 1 classic 5 point WoH monk. But don't forget allot of teams now run /Mo's on 2 - 3 other people to help with Seed's ( yes seed IS back) or HP.

DionStar

The Second Foundation

art_ · Mar 22, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion Star

If say you have a spike build then your free to take out the enemy monks first,

I'd have to say I disagree with that. If you are running a spike team, the chances are the spike would be significantly weakened by any interruption or excess pressure from the other team. For that reason I would recommend attempting to spike the biggest threat first. For example if you are playing ranger spike its pretty much a given the other team wil assign their mesmer (whether he be surge or migraine) to your order necro. Its likely this guy will take the job pretty zealously (lets face it, monks are more used to be mezmered) so you have a good chance of getting him overextended. Its best to take down the most serious threat first. Also if you are ranger spike and you see a guy with shields up, he's got to be a major priority once the first shields up subsides. Only if your spikes are getting infused would I then try and take out the infuser. If your spikes arent getting infused then you can often ignore the monks all together.

^ wrote that in a hurry. there may be mistakes >.>

Dion Star · Mar 22, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

I'd have to say I disagree with that. If you are running a spike team, the chances are the spike would be significantly weakened by any interruption or excess pressure from the other team. For that reason I would recommend attempting to spike the biggest threat first. For example if you are playing ranger spike its pretty much a given the other team wil assign their mesmer (whether he be surge or migraine) to your order necro. Its likely this guy will take the job pretty zealously (lets face it, monks are more used to be mezmered.) Its best to take down the serious thread first. Also if you are ranger spike and you see a guy with shields up, he's got to be a major priority once the first shields up subsides. Only if your spikes are getting infused would I then try and take out the infuser. If your spikes arent getting infused then you can often ignore the monks all together.

^ wrote that in a hurry. there may be mistakes >.>

Dude, you left out the rest of what I said... Or maybe you just didn't read it all :P Ill just assume that your hurried reply was also why you did not fully read what I said :P

Yes, Mesmer's are always a very important target but AGAIN depends on the build you are running too. What is most important is a caller that can dissect the opposing parties build and keep the team on target and motivated.

Guild Wars can be as deep a game as YOU make it. It has levels of RTS and FPS and RPG all rolled up into one nice package.

DionStar
The Second Foundation

Jetdoc · Mar 22, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Definitely needs to be moved to the PvP forum, since that is where a ton of the strategy in calling targets is debatable.

In PvE, the main called target will usually be:

1. Monks
2. Mesmers or Necros
3. Elementalists
4. Warriors or Rangers

But even that depends on the location of these monsters. If a caster lies well towards the rear of the battle or are otherwise in an unaccessible location, monsters toward the front may be the first targets in order to keep aggro on the enemy warriors.

Cherno · Mar 22, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

In PvE, the main called target will usually be:

1. Monks
2. Mesmers or Necros
3. Elementalists
4. Warriors or Rangers

But even that depends on the location of these monsters. If a caster lies well towards the rear of the battle or are otherwise in an unaccessible location, monsters toward the front may be the first targets in order to keep aggro on the enemy warriors.

Also depends on the skills those creatures use. In some places the monks aren't a problem at all (Sanctum Cay, riverside, etc. They are smiters)

In grenth's I almost always call the necros first because they reanimate. Then the rangers because they cause bleeding and interrupt the hell out of people.

Some places in the shiverpeaks, you would go after the warrior Stompies,,, to well stop the stomp. Or the Mesmers.

It is really about knowing what kind of grouping, the skills they use and how to best keep your team safe from them. That really just comes from the experience of having done it a few times.

Also most people go straight for bosses in a mob. In almost all circumstances it is better to take out the supporting creatures then concentrate on the boss.

Count to Potato · Mar 22, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

The rule to all battle in real life and in this game is to know ur apponent well, even to well, see the weakest link and say "Good Bye"

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 22, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

You can not win a battle with just one caller. That's right, more than one person capable of calling, however no one that is a caller all the time.

Everyone in your team will need to understand, know, and applicate the build of the opponent and your own for you to be able to make correct decision.

One person simply CAN NOT watch over all situation.

You may have just 1 tactician in the battle field, but you should not have just 1 caller in the battle field. This is not a battle with quantity, this is a battle with quality.

For example, it would be ridiculous to use all your shutdown on the called target. Instead you should spread the shutdown to 2-3 different targets to really maximize the potential. As a shutdown or E-denial mesemer, I often do not call or do not follow call. Instead, I will know which target was called and work on another target.

Warrior are often seen as the best caller. One of the main reason is that warrior simply can not reach target very fast comparing to range characters. So, if the warrior is the caller, they can make sure the target called is someone he/she can reach; something ranged caller simply can not do well for the warrior. Another reason is that warrior is often targeted less, therefore you won't have situation with "No one is calling".

A warrior however, should not be the main tactican majority of the time. It is always difficult for warrior to see the whole battle field, therefore their strategy will be poorer than a ranged character that can see the whole battle field (or warrior will need to take the extra time to look around). A tactician require time to think, so they can not be character that is baby sitting the opponent or getting baby sit from the opponent. If you can identify opponent's tactician, feel free to babysit him/her if he/she is not a flag runner already.

If anything, I wish they can insert "Call Channel", for each member of the team can be under different caller at the same time. I suppose Alliance battle will achieve something similar to that.

Mavrik · Mar 22, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

The issue with being a target caller is knowing your enemy as well as knowing your party and I'll explain.

For example your up against a group of foes in PvE (using PvE as an example because thats all I do) You know that the group has a monk as well as some caster, melee and archers. You need to decide who in your group attacks what. For example if you have a mesmer in the group, the mesmer should understand she/he is not following called targets. Instead they need to be shutting down the monk and casters while you call targets and have the group attack those. But say your just in a group, deciding to lead, and call targets then know who in the group your attacking is the most threatening and take them out first. I usually go for the monks first.

Sagius Truthbarron · Mar 23, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I just can't stand how in RA people always stay on the Boon Prot monk, even if they don't have the resources to take it out in the ammount of time they need to. When I monk in RA I can run into the enemy ahead of my team and then keep them on me for a good 6 minutes.

Its good to go for the healers first (unless they don't know how to heal) in RA, but it takes a considerable ammount of effort to take down a Boon Prot with nothing but physical damage.

Alot of those monks aren't very good against split damage, so I sometimes ask my team to do like 1-2 people on the Boon Prot, and everyone else on another softy. No one ever listens, and I've even seen them switch to a [good] warrior when they can't kill the enemy monk.